‘Succession’: Justin Kirk Breaks Down the Election and How Mencken Differs From Trump

SPOILER ALERT:This article contains spoilers for Season 4, Episode 8 of Succession, now streaming on HBO Max.

Its Roman Roys world, and were all just living in it.

Sundays hopefully-not-prescient episode of Succession pulls back the curtain on how, democracy be damned, a national election can ultimately be swayed by a few people who hold enormous wealth and power.

Such is the case with Jeryd Mencken, Justin Kirks slippery Republican presidential candidate who flirts with fascism and makes a not-so-subtle deal with Roman. (Kendall tried to accomplish the same mutual back-scratching last episode with Democrat Daniel Jimenezs campaign, but his adviser Nate was uncomfortable with the proposition.) When, on election night, a suspicious fire breaks out at a Milwaukee vote-counting center, calling into question the results of 100,000 ballots, Mencken outright promises Roman (Kieran Culkin) that hell kill the GoJo merger in exchange for ATNs support. (Its unclear whether the fire was started by left-wing extremists or Menckenists, as Shiv calls them, but the political alignment of the missing ballots points to the latter.)

What this entails is Waystars news network prematurely calling Wisconsin, and thus the election, for Mencken. In a tight and highly questionable race, Mencken delivers a stirring and sinister victory speech in which he says, Its now clear Ive won sufficient electoral votes to be declared the next president of the United States The election has been called by an authority of known integrity.

Elsewhere in this episode of Succession, Shiv (Sarah Snook) tells Tom (Matthew Macfadyen) shes pregnant with his child, news he doesnt take well. And Shivs days as a double agent are over, with Kendall (Jeremy Strong) exposing the fact that she is working with Lukas Matsson (Alexander Skarsgrd) to execute the merger. As she exits the ATN headquarters after Menckens victory speech, more isolated than ever from Kendall and Roman, she tells Matsson on the phone, Were gonna fuck them so hard. Were gonna fix this.

Kirk spoke with Variety about Menckens victory speech, whether Roman can trust him and Successions parallels with CNNs Donald Trump town hall.

When you joined the show in Season 3, did you have an idea of Menckens trajectory, and whether youd return for Season 4?

I certainly hoped so. The email that had the offer said at the bottom: Possible recur. The very last shot of [Season 3, Episode 6, my first episode on Succession] is me staring at Brian Cox after taking a picture with him, so it felt good as a possibility. But I didnt know for sure, and nor did I know that I would be elected president.

Well, sort of

At least for the time being. How dare you, sort of! I am the president, and you will respect me.

Fine. For such a scary, fascist-leaning politician, you portray Mencken as a very measured, calm dude. What went behind that performance choice?

A lot of it is on the page. I think hes a unique figure that we havent necessarily seen in real life completely, but close enough that it feels like we will tomorrow. The writers do most of the work for you. Maybe they knew what I would bring to it, and on we went.

Did you shoot different iterations of Menckens victory speech?

Not really. Most of what we shot is on the show. I asked them if it was going to go through a bunch of changes, and they said no. We shot it with me and my wife and child in the background who you can see in the first wide shot a very sparse camera crew and nobody else, in a room in New Jersey which I believe was the CNBC headquarters. I had to pitch it as though I was in a room full of rabid Mencken true-believers.

Its an odd speech that isnt overtly fascist, per se, but certainly has some white supremacist dog whistles like proud and pure.

Yeah, and its funny how they edited that. Because the camera is on Kendall saying, Hes a guy we can do business with, and then you can hear the end of my speech with the proud and pure thing. So they just snuck that in.

Justin Kirk and Kieran Culkin in Season 3 of Succession Macall Polay Have you imagined, for your own sake, what Menckens political backstory is?

Just for myself, I determined that he represented a red district in a blue state, like an upper Midwest state maybe a Minnesota or Wisconsin.

HBO sends Succession screeners out to press on Wednesdays, so I watched this episode literally right after the CNN Trump town hall.

Dude, Ive been saying this all day. Me too. Its been fun to play this horrible guy because its fun to play horrible guys but I watched it right after the town hall. I didnt watch the whole thing but I saw enough clips of it that I was like, Hmm

It was a pretty eerie experience.

I dont think Mencken is the same dude [as Trump]. But that thing on CNN was a reminder of the Ghost of Christmas Future well, hopefully the Ghost of Christmas Past.

Were there any real-life politicians that you modeled Mencken after?

No, I think whats fun about him is that he isnt aligned with a real-life figure. Hes hard-right, but hes not Tommy Tuberville, lets put it that way. Hes not Marjorie Taylor Greene. He considers himself a bit of an intellectual, I think. And his ideas come from his real beliefs about what America should be.

Mencken does not seem like an election denier, like weve seen with Trump and other figures on the right. He has that scene with Roman where he says, I am very focused on losing If I lose, I want it correctly characterized as a huge victory. I want to be the president if it isnt tonight, it will be next time.

Youre right. Hes not saying, I want ATN to say it was rigged. Hes saying, I want you to say, See how close he got!' Hes definitely a player that will win next time.

How do you see Menckens relationship with Kendall? He clearly feels threatened by your closeness to Roman.

Yeah, poor Kendall is just trying to figure out what to do at this stage after his daughter has gotten into a kerfuffle. Well, I know some things, and I dont know other things, about what happens next.

Are we, the audience, supposed to take Mencken at his word regarding the deal he makes with Roman? Or is there a chance he doesnt follow through on the promise to kill the GoJo deal?

I saw that Roman says [Mencken will kill the deal], but I dont know if that necessarily means we dont see me say it. I was shocked to see that. I dont know if you can count on any of it.

Interesting. We know that Shiv is lying to Kendall and Roman in regards to asking the Jimenez campaign to kill the deal, because shes on Team GoJo. So are you saying that because we dont hear Menckens side of the conversation, Roman could be lying to Kendall too?

I dont know that hes lying. I dont think Roman is making it up. From the way he said it, I would assume that he believes it. But I dont know how much Mencken articulated it to him. We know that all the characters on Succession say some things and dont say others, like Matssons [faulty] subscription numbers in India.

Based on IMDb, you are in the next episode of Succession as well. Can you

By the way, the phrase based on IMDb who puts that there? They dont know! I dont think theres a Succession intern sending them an email saying, This is what characters are in this episode. I think theyre speculating I hope Im in Episode 9!

Let me rephrase. Based on IMDb Pro

No! Its the same information. But Im impressed that you have Pro.

In vague terms, what can we expect from the next episode?

Its not even what I can or cant say. I dont know! I know what we shoot, and sometimes they use it and sometimes they dont. Thats the nature of making a television show you do all the stuff and they put it together afterward. To be honest, Im much more Succession viewer than participator at this stage. Its fun to see what ends up where.

Have you imagined what Menckens actual legislation would be once he takes office?

No, because that would be very upsetting. Well see if Im president at the end of Episode 10

Have people started recognizing you in public as Mencken?

I was on a hike after the Season 3 episode aired, and someone yelled, I hope you get to be president! And I said, Thanks! Not for the country but I appreciate it. I will say that I got the most texts and emails after that episode than Ive ever gotten after a gig, from people I havent talked to in a while. Its a lot, and its occasionally stressful. But its mostly a real gift.

This interview has been condensed and edited.